Five Star Reality
Contest Entry: FanStory Suggestions for 201941 total reviews
Comment from Gloria ....
Ah one of my favourite subjects to consider and deliberate--the rating system. Over the years I've spent quite a long time trying to think of a way to "improve" the current star system and have thus far arrived at the conclusion it's not possible.
Here's why:
This wonderful online site welcomes all skill levels. By definition it could be likened to teaching a class with literary abilities ranging from first graders to Doctors of Literature. Now let's say the first grader uses the rating system as you presented and they issue 40% one star reviews. With the reasoning being, the work under review is a one star POOR rating to them because it is not understandable and in need of major revision. Yes this happens where one stars are given because of what they determine are "big" completely incomprehensible words such as sated and innate. Was the reviewer being "honest" in their review? Based on the information provided, it's defensible to say because the reviewer didn't understand the meaning of those two very common words that yes, they were being "honest". But to the doctor of literature it's neither "fair" nor useful and likely a great deal frustrating.
While preparing for publishing may have been FanStory's original intent, the main thrust seems to have changed substantially over the years. However the option for proofreading and editing opinions remains for those who are looking for such input but that would have to be done using the Lock and Key option. I still maintain if one plans to publish, hiring the services of a professional for a substantive proofread and edit is a wise choice because even after many scrupulous edits errors still manage to pass by undetected.
That said, you've written a most interesting essay, although in my opinion it could be reduced to half its size to have more impact.
The metaphor of blacksmithing a sword is a perfect analogy.
I wish you much luck in the contest, Yvette. :)
Gloria
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Ah one of my favourite subjects to consider and deliberate--the rating system. Over the years I've spent quite a long time trying to think of a way to "improve" the current star system and have thus far arrived at the conclusion it's not possible.
Here's why:
This wonderful online site welcomes all skill levels. By definition it could be likened to teaching a class with literary abilities ranging from first graders to Doctors of Literature. Now let's say the first grader uses the rating system as you presented and they issue 40% one star reviews. With the reasoning being, the work under review is a one star POOR rating to them because it is not understandable and in need of major revision. Yes this happens where one stars are given because of what they determine are "big" completely incomprehensible words such as sated and innate. Was the reviewer being "honest" in their review? Based on the information provided, it's defensible to say because the reviewer didn't understand the meaning of those two very common words that yes, they were being "honest". But to the doctor of literature it's neither "fair" nor useful and likely a great deal frustrating.
While preparing for publishing may have been FanStory's original intent, the main thrust seems to have changed substantially over the years. However the option for proofreading and editing opinions remains for those who are looking for such input but that would have to be done using the Lock and Key option. I still maintain if one plans to publish, hiring the services of a professional for a substantive proofread and edit is a wise choice because even after many scrupulous edits errors still manage to pass by undetected.
That said, you've written a most interesting essay, although in my opinion it could be reduced to half its size to have more impact.
The metaphor of blacksmithing a sword is a perfect analogy.
I wish you much luck in the contest, Yvette. :)
Gloria
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thanx for the read and review Gloria - much appreciated. Have a Happy New Year!
Comment from poetwatch
Hey teach, did you grade my work out of the kindness of your heart or because you wanted some pennies? Yvette, this is an outstanding piece of work. It must be nice to be able to write this essay of truth and make no mistakes. Something like this would take me about a month after all the corrections and rewrites. You have my permission to correct me and suggest different ways for me to improve. I believe I am a poet first and second a wanna-be author. Thank you for a showing me the real you. Though I like the sci-fy nut also.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Hey teach, did you grade my work out of the kindness of your heart or because you wanted some pennies? Yvette, this is an outstanding piece of work. It must be nice to be able to write this essay of truth and make no mistakes. Something like this would take me about a month after all the corrections and rewrites. You have my permission to correct me and suggest different ways for me to improve. I believe I am a poet first and second a wanna-be author. Thank you for a showing me the real you. Though I like the sci-fy nut also.
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thanx for the wonderful review, Jose, but.after this foray into reality, I'll be sticking to fantasy for the foreseeable future. ;) :) I'll save the stress for work. ;) ;) Thank you again, and I'll catch you in the new year.....headed to the in-laws (ugh!) for a few days. ;) Happy 2019! ;) Yvette
Comment from JDRBAR
You expressed so many of my own thoughts in this comprehensive essay on reviewing. I have often read, but not reviewed a piece because of not wishing to contend with the upset reactions of the writer at getting a four star. When I do review, I try to be as honest as I can be in the same manner I expect those reviewing my own writings to be.
There are a couple of spags but in all honesty, I didn't want to go back in search of them. Otherwise, this would have merited a six in my opinion.
Happy New Year to you and yours
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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You expressed so many of my own thoughts in this comprehensive essay on reviewing. I have often read, but not reviewed a piece because of not wishing to contend with the upset reactions of the writer at getting a four star. When I do review, I try to be as honest as I can be in the same manner I expect those reviewing my own writings to be.
There are a couple of spags but in all honesty, I didn't want to go back in search of them. Otherwise, this would have merited a six in my opinion.
Happy New Year to you and yours
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thank you so much for your positive comments, ma'am.....you really did put a small smile on my face. I will be sticking to fiction from now on, though. Don't need the 'atmosphere ' of work following me into my 'fun time ' of writing! ;) Off to the in-laws (ugh!) So I'll catch you in the new year! Happy 2019! ;) Yvette;)
Comment from Six-Star Writer
Yes, I awarded you five stars. This isn't a reflection of your essay, merely a gut feeling as to what the work merits. In my humble opinion, while this work is detailed and, fir the most part well-crafted, it is simply too lengthy. Much of what you wrote is self-evident at has been discussed ad nauseam on forum posts.
I also felt this work was, at times, pedantic in its scope.
I believe "posting" should be "posted" in the works second paragraph (at least I believe it was the second paragraph; the work was so long, I can't really recall). It was an opening paragraph with the word participated in it. I believe "participated" is in single quotes (something the English do, and a huge pet peave of mine), but I could be wrong about where the error occurred.
Not that you'll probably care for my opinion (my warning disclaimer), but the reason I am often up in arms in regard to certain reviews is that I simply don't believe many so-called "teachers" aren't qualified to make judgments on what is and what isn't good writing. They will belabor a point to death, but in the end, their words (and usually their poetry and prose fall short of the mark). I have pointed this out on numerous occasions, and pointed out that most of the so-called highly ranked poetry doesn't belong at the top. Of course when making this observation, I was attacked by what I've dubbed the FanStory clique, which contrary to what others have stated, does indeed exist.
The old saying "those who can do, and those who can't teach" applies perfectly here.
Of course, once someone has got it in his/her head that he/she knows more than someone else about writing, and more to the point, what is a good piece of writing, it's virtually impossible to make this person realize otherwise.
I know I have an exceptional and unique voice, and I will continue writing and publishing my work, regardless what some pompous self-proclaimed, or university-ordained school, scholar (and I use this term loosely here) has to say.
This is why I don't put very much credence in what people with overinflated egos on this site have to tell me.
But thanks for sharing your work, as you do make some fine points, and even though I am not necessarily enamored with the more traditional, structured, and less risky style of poetry you bring to the site, I did enjoy your "knight" poem the other day.
Please excuse any grammatical errors in my review, as I usually don't have much time to edit what I write.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Yes, I awarded you five stars. This isn't a reflection of your essay, merely a gut feeling as to what the work merits. In my humble opinion, while this work is detailed and, fir the most part well-crafted, it is simply too lengthy. Much of what you wrote is self-evident at has been discussed ad nauseam on forum posts.
I also felt this work was, at times, pedantic in its scope.
I believe "posting" should be "posted" in the works second paragraph (at least I believe it was the second paragraph; the work was so long, I can't really recall). It was an opening paragraph with the word participated in it. I believe "participated" is in single quotes (something the English do, and a huge pet peave of mine), but I could be wrong about where the error occurred.
Not that you'll probably care for my opinion (my warning disclaimer), but the reason I am often up in arms in regard to certain reviews is that I simply don't believe many so-called "teachers" aren't qualified to make judgments on what is and what isn't good writing. They will belabor a point to death, but in the end, their words (and usually their poetry and prose fall short of the mark). I have pointed this out on numerous occasions, and pointed out that most of the so-called highly ranked poetry doesn't belong at the top. Of course when making this observation, I was attacked by what I've dubbed the FanStory clique, which contrary to what others have stated, does indeed exist.
The old saying "those who can do, and those who can't teach" applies perfectly here.
Of course, once someone has got it in his/her head that he/she knows more than someone else about writing, and more to the point, what is a good piece of writing, it's virtually impossible to make this person realize otherwise.
I know I have an exceptional and unique voice, and I will continue writing and publishing my work, regardless what some pompous self-proclaimed, or university-ordained school, scholar (and I use this term loosely here) has to say.
This is why I don't put very much credence in what people with overinflated egos on this site have to tell me.
But thanks for sharing your work, as you do make some fine points, and even though I am not necessarily enamored with the more traditional, structured, and less risky style of poetry you bring to the site, I did enjoy your "knight" poem the other day.
Please excuse any grammatical errors in my review, as I usually don't have much time to edit what I write.
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thank you for your review. ;) Happy New Year! ;)
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You're welcome, 'Y'. Happy N-word to you, too. Have fun in your classroom.
Comment from Roxanna Andrews
Oh no! I just gave you 5 stars! =} But it really does deserve it. It is well written, understandable and has great insight, input and ideas. I gave a 5 star rating to one author and got a reply that he always gets 6's. Really? I found that very hard to believe. I am very guilty of giving too many 5's.
I have myself gotten 3's & 4's and told my book was too predictable and had been done. Hasn't everything already been done? But I just said thank you and I would work harder to fix things. There is a reviewer on here who would write a 3 page error review for me. He got sick of me after a while and quit reviewing. I always thanked him and tried very hard to improve. I do want to be good at writing though I doubt I will publish again unless a publishing house comes to me crying and begging and with a big fat advance check. =} But I so enjoy it. I love to do silly poems, most of which mine are and amazingly I won a site sponsored contest!! I didn't believe it and had to read the notice over and over before I was convinced. That was so great!! and the poem was so stupid.
Poetry is harder for me as I'm only an expert at dumb and silly and don't know anything about all these seemly endless forms. But I'm trying to learn though I'll never write any of those forms because they are too serious. =}
You have really great ideas like limiting the number of 5 s you can give. That would be a really good thing to do. Of course I'd be in big trouble. I'll just have to bite the bullet and get yelled at. Who cares what they say anyway. They don't know where I live.
I really doubt anything will change. I've been on the site for about 8 yrs and the 5 giving out has gotten to where there are more and more. We live in a world where everyone gets their feelings hurt if you say boo! and very fragile egos. But you can go ahead and hit me with those 3s & 4s and help me do better. I won't yell at you or hate you. I'll just say thank you for the helps.
Well done on this. Hope you win and it does some good. Rox
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Oh no! I just gave you 5 stars! =} But it really does deserve it. It is well written, understandable and has great insight, input and ideas. I gave a 5 star rating to one author and got a reply that he always gets 6's. Really? I found that very hard to believe. I am very guilty of giving too many 5's.
I have myself gotten 3's & 4's and told my book was too predictable and had been done. Hasn't everything already been done? But I just said thank you and I would work harder to fix things. There is a reviewer on here who would write a 3 page error review for me. He got sick of me after a while and quit reviewing. I always thanked him and tried very hard to improve. I do want to be good at writing though I doubt I will publish again unless a publishing house comes to me crying and begging and with a big fat advance check. =} But I so enjoy it. I love to do silly poems, most of which mine are and amazingly I won a site sponsored contest!! I didn't believe it and had to read the notice over and over before I was convinced. That was so great!! and the poem was so stupid.
Poetry is harder for me as I'm only an expert at dumb and silly and don't know anything about all these seemly endless forms. But I'm trying to learn though I'll never write any of those forms because they are too serious. =}
You have really great ideas like limiting the number of 5 s you can give. That would be a really good thing to do. Of course I'd be in big trouble. I'll just have to bite the bullet and get yelled at. Who cares what they say anyway. They don't know where I live.
I really doubt anything will change. I've been on the site for about 8 yrs and the 5 giving out has gotten to where there are more and more. We live in a world where everyone gets their feelings hurt if you say boo! and very fragile egos. But you can go ahead and hit me with those 3s & 4s and help me do better. I won't yell at you or hate you. I'll just say thank you for the helps.
Well done on this. Hope you win and it does some good. Rox
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thanx so much for the comments and insight, Roxanna -- I usually stick to fantasy/sci-fi and learning poetry as my writing is my 'escape' from teenagers (LOL!), and, I have to tell you, after some of the more .... interesting .... reviews on this, I'm pretty sure this will be my last 'reality' write. Definitely A LOT less stressful and there are no 'shields' necessary (you know, the kind Captain Kirk would raise!!) to protect the ship! :) :) Pretty sure now it won't even come close to winning in the vote......but I do appreciate your well wishes!! :) :) Thanx again for dropping by and have a wonderful 2019 -- catch you in the New Year when I get back from my in-laws....sigh. :) :) Take care! :) ;) Yvette
Comment from Mastery
Her's your five stars, Yvette. LOL You dom deserve them for this essay. I agree with yor presentation and have long thought some sot of adjustment should be masde to the guidelines tom ensure people don't just hand out stars willy nilly to get the money and run. Good luck in the contest,
ps. This is a genuine five star rating.
Happy New Year! Bob
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Her's your five stars, Yvette. LOL You dom deserve them for this essay. I agree with yor presentation and have long thought some sot of adjustment should be masde to the guidelines tom ensure people don't just hand out stars willy nilly to get the money and run. Good luck in the contest,
ps. This is a genuine five star rating.
Happy New Year! Bob
Comment Written 28-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thanx, Bob -- pretty sure I'll be sticking to fantasy/sci-fi and, perhaps, my poetry from now on -- this 'reality' writing is SO NOT worth the ....how should I say.....hassle..? Not really the word I was looking for, but it'll do. :) Anyway, I do appreciate your genuine five star -- guess that's the way folks will refer to it if I even get any more after this. Have a very Happy New Year! :) :) Yvette
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Congrats, Yvette on winning that Contest. Bravo! The star system is outdated in my opinion as is the way rankings are determined, but I was txoo late to put my two cents in. (: Bob
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Then, I'm all in favor of eliminating it if it means nothing....but that's just the crazy blonde mathematician in me! ;) ;)
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Didn't mean it "means nothing" I mean tthe system needs updating. :) Bob
Comment from aryr
Good luck Yvette in the Fanstory Suggestions for 2019 contest. This was very well penned or rather typed. It is evident that you gave a great deal of thought to your words and did indeed address some valid issues and concerns. I certainly appreciated your honesty throughout. This was well done and definitely warranted a five star rating. I especially liked your suggestion of moving the rate box to below the actual review. There was one small error that I noted but does not reflect on my rating. Thanks for sharing. 'from the blacksmith;s', I think you meant to use ' rather than ; . (Holiday blessings to you and yours.)
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Good luck Yvette in the Fanstory Suggestions for 2019 contest. This was very well penned or rather typed. It is evident that you gave a great deal of thought to your words and did indeed address some valid issues and concerns. I certainly appreciated your honesty throughout. This was well done and definitely warranted a five star rating. I especially liked your suggestion of moving the rate box to below the actual review. There was one small error that I noted but does not reflect on my rating. Thanks for sharing. 'from the blacksmith;s', I think you meant to use ' rather than ; . (Holiday blessings to you and yours.)
Comment Written 27-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Thanx so much for your review here, aryr -- you know I don't do 'real' writes (more of a scientist, etc when it comes to that), but I never expected some of the .... interesting .... comments this post has received. :) Wow -- I'm definitely sticking to poetry and fantasy/sci-fi from now on! :) ;) I write as an 'escape' from the confrontation that can sometimes overshadow teaching....I certainly don't need that mess in my 'escape' time! :) :) Sorry, didn't mean to rant, but I knew I could probably find an ear to listen over there....if not, please accept my apologies and I will refrain. :) :) I'm off to the in-laws this morning (yay! more uncomfortable 'confrontation') so I'll catch you in the New Year, ma'am! :) Look forward to reading more of your adventures soon -- Happy 2019! Yvette :)
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You are most welcome Yvette and you can rant all you want with me. I do so hope you have a smidgen of peace and serenity during your visit. See you in 2019. Happy New Years.
Comment from susand3022
Hi Yvette! I'm going to give you four stars!!! I'm telling you why, I think you need to add one thing that you didn't think of. I have often wished I could give someone an extra half star. When four, or five is just too high, but three or four is too low. You know what I mean? It's rare that I want to give someone something like a 3, though I did do it once I think, I felt really bad about the laundry list but was actually pleasantly surprised to find a one-in-a-million who appreciated it! I wanted to give her higher than a 3 but 4 was just too much of a lie.
I'm sure I know that first person you described though, grabbed that first thing in my portfolio and told me I sounded like a Hallmark card. I'm sure he meant it as an insult but as it was a poem for my parent's 60th wedding anniversary I thanked him and told him I could use a job and maybe I would contact Hallmark!
My favorite though was a guy who spouted his writing pedigree, (which I refuse to do) then he said that I should certainly feel free to read and enjoy his work, but that I was not welcome to review him any longer! (I figured he was about 12.) I looked at his page, saw his pedigree... so what..., and he's been here for 12 years. Well, a couple of weeks later, after I had unfanned him for his rudeness, I got a message welcoming me to his fan club. LOL Some people. Hahaha Life goes on.
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
reply by the author on 27-Dec-2018
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Hi Yvette! I'm going to give you four stars!!! I'm telling you why, I think you need to add one thing that you didn't think of. I have often wished I could give someone an extra half star. When four, or five is just too high, but three or four is too low. You know what I mean? It's rare that I want to give someone something like a 3, though I did do it once I think, I felt really bad about the laundry list but was actually pleasantly surprised to find a one-in-a-million who appreciated it! I wanted to give her higher than a 3 but 4 was just too much of a lie.
I'm sure I know that first person you described though, grabbed that first thing in my portfolio and told me I sounded like a Hallmark card. I'm sure he meant it as an insult but as it was a poem for my parent's 60th wedding anniversary I thanked him and told him I could use a job and maybe I would contact Hallmark!
My favorite though was a guy who spouted his writing pedigree, (which I refuse to do) then he said that I should certainly feel free to read and enjoy his work, but that I was not welcome to review him any longer! (I figured he was about 12.) I looked at his page, saw his pedigree... so what..., and he's been here for 12 years. Well, a couple of weeks later, after I had unfanned him for his rudeness, I got a message welcoming me to his fan club. LOL Some people. Hahaha Life goes on.
This rating does not count towards story rating or author rank.
The highest and the lowest rating are not included in calculations.
Comment Written 27-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 27-Dec-2018
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Thanx for your great comments and input, Susan -- I have to say that this is a first: I get a four because my write didn't contain an issue that could have been addressed with your own contest entry, but, hey, I'm all for firsts...especially during the holidays! :) :) LOL! :) Oh, and your 'favorite' there...I have probably been through that one too - hadn't fanned them so, that wasn't an issue, but the whole "these are my creds"? Oh, yeah.:) :) My answer: whatever. :) :) I started writing as an 'escape' from the stresses of dealing with entitled teenagers and their more-entitled parents and I still write because I find that I am enjoying the variety of writes FanStory challenges my brain with....I honestly entered the contest with this topic just 'cuz it was something that I could truly research and propose solutions - totally appealing to my scientific brain! :) :) Thanx again for the smiles, ma'am -- take care and Happy New Year! :) ;)
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Happy New Year to you too Yvette! I'm so glad they have that contest. (I went to college for 7 years because I could. I just like to learn and my dad taught so I went free. I didn't take that last class that would graduate me until I took everything else that I felt like taking, at both state schools! I've continued on line classes and other things on my own as well. I'm just a learning type. I'm also not a bragging type which is why I don't 'list my letters.' (so don't tell on me okay?) I don't really think it matters one bit. After all, with all I have learned I still can't write characters worth a damn! :) :)
Comment from Ulla
Hi Yvette, I read your entry with great interest, and I agree with you most of the way. All I can say is that English is not my first language and I've received my fair share of four stars reviews over the years. Not only were they well deserved but they also taught me a great deal. I was lucky that I had reviewers who pointed out where I went wrong. I like to think that I learned from them and made me a better writer. Fanstory can do that for you. I'm guilty of the 'five star culture' but never afraid of correcting when I feel it's justified and I feel confident to do it. All the best. Ulla:)))
reply by the author on 27-Dec-2018
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Hi Yvette, I read your entry with great interest, and I agree with you most of the way. All I can say is that English is not my first language and I've received my fair share of four stars reviews over the years. Not only were they well deserved but they also taught me a great deal. I was lucky that I had reviewers who pointed out where I went wrong. I like to think that I learned from them and made me a better writer. Fanstory can do that for you. I'm guilty of the 'five star culture' but never afraid of correcting when I feel it's justified and I feel confident to do it. All the best. Ulla:)))
Comment Written 27-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 27-Dec-2018
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Thanx for dropping by, Ulla, and for the wonderful input and shared experiences -- I have so enjoyed reading about everyone's experiences here that they have shared in response to this post. And, yes, I, too, have experienced some very helpful input and advice that has made me a better writer. :) ;) Here's wishing you a very Happy and Joyous New Year from my little corner of the world to yours! ;) ;) Yvette
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Happy New year to as well, Ulla:)))
Comment from Shanbreen
Dear Yvette.
I am glad you wrote this. I did try to do this at one time but nothing came out of it. Unlike your suggestions (which I believe can be more acceptable based on the current culture and the process set at Fan Story), mine had to do more with the use of the scale - make it more discriminative so that there was a likelihood of people receiving say a 2.5, a 2.6, a 4.7 instead of 1,2,3,4, 5 and 6 -- being a research scientist in the field of Psychometrics that's how my mind worked -- to get as much objectivity in the review process through the use of a more discriminative scale. I now realize that each review with my method would require substantial involvement, and would likely not be acceptable at FS.
I went through your suggestions and they are very much in line with what I believe should be done. Many of the "things" you describe with your experiences, I have felt at the receiving end because some reviewers were not objective and let their personal biases/ values come into play. As an example, one person wrote me a long note on how beggars should not be treated in a fictional story I had written (based on my experiences, of course). The skipping part (your suggestion), in this context is a great point to remember. Although, that may not be too easy to do because most of us review for the sake of getting our own work reviewed - and there may not be enough of what we would really like to read to make money.=)
I also liked the separation of people who would like critical reviews as opposed to those who need "feel good" points. I, on my part, have succumbed to this, especially where poetry is concerned - I just give a five and point out some things that may not be technically sound or something that I like. In this context, I differ from you because I believe that part of the problem lies in the expertise of the reviewers.
I can pretty much relate to this because I honestly don't know how to review a poem. I am okay with prose (where I occasionally give a four and even a three at one time), but poetry... well that's a different story for me especially if it is a haiku or a three-line poem or some other few liners. The syllable requirement is easy to evaluate as is the rhyme in a rhyming poem. I am mesmerized by some poets who have sonnets with a specific syllable requirement, lines and the rhyming scheme. But what else would make one poem better than another with the same technical scheme. Again, the poem is already written in a specific format - requirements of a contest or personal expectations. In such a case the technicalities are met, therefore, the only evaluation is based on the context (the message). I'm sure great poems are great aside from the requirements of the contest because they use alliterations, onomatopoeia, metaphors, etc. I doubt if most people at FS even think about such things. This becomes all the more of a problem in ranking very short poems or a free style where vague words are often used to suggest a good flow.
A friend of mine gave me "Fifty Poems for our Time" which has Tracy Smith (Poet Laureate of the United States) for Christmas. Although I'm still reading it, I find no common thread. Many of them are rather long poems, written almost like prose. Most of them are free-flowing verses, where I don't find any rhythm (whatever that means) - I could very well be reading a story --it's almost like a philosophical statement said in an unusual way. In these poems, I'm hard pressed to look at the technicalities - instead depending on a clever manner of presentation - however common the idea. In this context, I almost find that unlike prose everything can be a free-flowing poem - it's easier (in my opinion) because there is no attention to punctuations, order of words, etc. other than, as stated earlier, it needs rhythm and flow.
I actually paid professionals (who are editors of poetry in some well-known magazines) to edit some of my work and they came up with such differences of opinion that I was more confused than ever before. I'll start my poetry classes again in Spring - hope I get something more than what I have had so far. =)
Finally, with respect to reviewers, it would be nice if they point out specifics of what is good (if there is any) - and I don't mean the usual pat on the back, "well written." The same of course goes with the problems (using specific lines or words from the poem). I have no problem doing it with prose but I'm learning to do that with poems.
Frankly, I don't pay any attention to my ratings. I really don't care what stars anybody give me, but I'm very grateful to those who identify the good and the bad in my work. What you have suggested, Yvette, is great starting point, especially creating groups who do not like a critical evaluation and those who do. Thanks.
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Dear Yvette.
I am glad you wrote this. I did try to do this at one time but nothing came out of it. Unlike your suggestions (which I believe can be more acceptable based on the current culture and the process set at Fan Story), mine had to do more with the use of the scale - make it more discriminative so that there was a likelihood of people receiving say a 2.5, a 2.6, a 4.7 instead of 1,2,3,4, 5 and 6 -- being a research scientist in the field of Psychometrics that's how my mind worked -- to get as much objectivity in the review process through the use of a more discriminative scale. I now realize that each review with my method would require substantial involvement, and would likely not be acceptable at FS.
I went through your suggestions and they are very much in line with what I believe should be done. Many of the "things" you describe with your experiences, I have felt at the receiving end because some reviewers were not objective and let their personal biases/ values come into play. As an example, one person wrote me a long note on how beggars should not be treated in a fictional story I had written (based on my experiences, of course). The skipping part (your suggestion), in this context is a great point to remember. Although, that may not be too easy to do because most of us review for the sake of getting our own work reviewed - and there may not be enough of what we would really like to read to make money.=)
I also liked the separation of people who would like critical reviews as opposed to those who need "feel good" points. I, on my part, have succumbed to this, especially where poetry is concerned - I just give a five and point out some things that may not be technically sound or something that I like. In this context, I differ from you because I believe that part of the problem lies in the expertise of the reviewers.
I can pretty much relate to this because I honestly don't know how to review a poem. I am okay with prose (where I occasionally give a four and even a three at one time), but poetry... well that's a different story for me especially if it is a haiku or a three-line poem or some other few liners. The syllable requirement is easy to evaluate as is the rhyme in a rhyming poem. I am mesmerized by some poets who have sonnets with a specific syllable requirement, lines and the rhyming scheme. But what else would make one poem better than another with the same technical scheme. Again, the poem is already written in a specific format - requirements of a contest or personal expectations. In such a case the technicalities are met, therefore, the only evaluation is based on the context (the message). I'm sure great poems are great aside from the requirements of the contest because they use alliterations, onomatopoeia, metaphors, etc. I doubt if most people at FS even think about such things. This becomes all the more of a problem in ranking very short poems or a free style where vague words are often used to suggest a good flow.
A friend of mine gave me "Fifty Poems for our Time" which has Tracy Smith (Poet Laureate of the United States) for Christmas. Although I'm still reading it, I find no common thread. Many of them are rather long poems, written almost like prose. Most of them are free-flowing verses, where I don't find any rhythm (whatever that means) - I could very well be reading a story --it's almost like a philosophical statement said in an unusual way. In these poems, I'm hard pressed to look at the technicalities - instead depending on a clever manner of presentation - however common the idea. In this context, I almost find that unlike prose everything can be a free-flowing poem - it's easier (in my opinion) because there is no attention to punctuations, order of words, etc. other than, as stated earlier, it needs rhythm and flow.
I actually paid professionals (who are editors of poetry in some well-known magazines) to edit some of my work and they came up with such differences of opinion that I was more confused than ever before. I'll start my poetry classes again in Spring - hope I get something more than what I have had so far. =)
Finally, with respect to reviewers, it would be nice if they point out specifics of what is good (if there is any) - and I don't mean the usual pat on the back, "well written." The same of course goes with the problems (using specific lines or words from the poem). I have no problem doing it with prose but I'm learning to do that with poems.
Frankly, I don't pay any attention to my ratings. I really don't care what stars anybody give me, but I'm very grateful to those who identify the good and the bad in my work. What you have suggested, Yvette, is great starting point, especially creating groups who do not like a critical evaluation and those who do. Thanks.
Comment Written 27-Dec-2018
reply by the author on 28-Dec-2018
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Wow! Thanx so very much for the detailed review, Shanbreen -- you are awesome to have devoted so much time here! :) ;) I will tell you, though, I think I would have pulled the post within the first 24-hours if I had known I needed armor to deflect some of the negativity....seems the same atmosphere that exists around my students also exists in the members here at FanStory. Ah, but I suppose it is to be expected as such is the culture in which we are immersed these days...think I will just stick to my fantasy/sci-fi writes from now on. :) ;) I do so appreciate your time and comments/info here, and I hope you had/are having a wonderful time with family -- I'm off to my in-laws this morning so, if you're a praying man, throw a prayer or two for me in there! :) Not an lol, but maybe not totally without a grin. :) ;) Will catch you in the New Year! :) ;) Yvette
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Hey Yvette.
All the best for the visit with the in-laws. I find my visits with my in-laws and even my own family, very taxing -- just take a few CoQ10's and head out -- you'll be safe that way. =)
I'm getting ready for my trip to India, Nepal, Vietnam, and Cambodia -- starting mid-January and returning after two months (some of it will be with my in-laws).=)
Take care my friend, and have a great New Year.
