Australia News
Saw this on my Feed.
The Associated Press
Self-described Nazi becomes first person jailed in Australia for performing outlawed salute.
A man got one month in jail for doing a Nazi salute. Is this real? And if so, how?
CD Richards
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RE: Australia News
It's real, and it's possible because the act of performing a nazi salute is illegal in the State of Victoria since last October.
What you may not know, and will probably make no difference to you is he also yelled, while performing the salute, "Australia for the White Man, heil Hitler!"
Furthermore, this white supremacist has previously spent 3 days in jail for attacking a group of hikers.
Do pieces of filth like this have a right to free speech? Well, under US law it appears they do. Perhaps he should move to the US. Under Victorian law, it would seem they do not. Can't say that fills me with sorrow and remorse at the pitiful treatment meted out to him.
We don't have a first amendment in this country. Thankfully, we don't also have half the population supporting racism and hate speech.
RE: Australia News
Thank you for the information. I wasn't sure about Freedom of Speech in your country. As for not having the racist and haters. How would you know, if they do not have the freedom say or express what they think or feel in public, or do the law also extends to private?
But it's your country. I'm not a citizen, so I do not judge what other sovereign nations choose. I was just curious.
CD Richards
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RE: Australia News
Victoria is one state, like Illinois. To the best of my knowledge, it's not against the law to do a nazi salute in other states... yet.
Freedom of speech is restricted in every state here, and federally, as it is in the US. There are limits to what is tolerated. That's a good thing, in my opinion. Even so, bigots and whackjobs are allowed a long leash. Too long, in the opinion of most.
RE: Australia News
Ah, I see. I'm just curious. Does that law apply to everyone equally? I mean if a black man or an Aboriginal woman had said, "I'm a black supremist and I hate white people. They ruined our land." Then given whatever the black supremist version of a salute or raised their arm in air like a Nazi, would she be sent to jail for a month too?
CD Richards
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RE: Australia News
Australian aborigines don't really have a symbol of solidarity similar to the raised clenched fist of the "black power" movement in the US. Some individuals and groups do use this symbol to express solidarity with other racial equality movements, particularly African Americans, but it's not all that common.
Although black Australians have suffered similar injustices to American blacks in many ways, there are notable differences. For example, an aborigine may truthfully claim "you stole our land", as they were the original inhabitants, whereas black Americans were not, of course, the original inhabitants of the US. Their arrival was (slightly) after the arrival of white settlers. In this sense, aborigines are more like the Native American tribes and nations.
I don't think anyone would be jailed for using the black power "salute" or any similar thing. There is a very good reason for this, which I'll let ChatGPT explain:
'The "Black Power" salute, a gesture with a raised fist and a clenched hand, originated as a symbol of solidarity, resistance, and empowerment for African Americans and people of African descent around the world. The salute gained prominence during the civil rights and Black Power movements of the 1960s, representing a call for dignity, justice, and liberation from systemic oppression, racism, and inequality.'
'The Nazi salute, also known as the "Heil Hitler" or "Hitler salute," originated as a gesture in Nazi Germany to show loyalty and obedience to Adolf Hitler and the ideals of the Nazi Party... Today, the Nazi salute is considered a symbol of hatred and white supremacist ideology. When used by neo-Nazis or white supremacist organizations, it serves as a statement of alignment with racist, anti-Semitic, and nationalist beliefs. Its modern use typically signals support for Nazi ideals, including the supremacy of certain races and the exclusion or persecution of others based on race, ethnicity, or other attributes.... its use today is widely condemned as a hateful, offensive symbol of far-right extremism and racism.
So, I think if someone attempts to imply these gestures are merely representing equally valid perspectives from opposite sides of the spectrum, they are drawing a very false equivalence.
There is a reason the nazi salute is banned in several countries, most notably, in Germany.
I'm not at all ashamed or embarrassed that any government in my country doesn't want people spreading hatred and ultra-nationalism.
RE: Australia News
To echo your last sentiment Craig, most people would be shocked to see a Nazi salute and would be happy that it wasn't tolerated because of it's very specific connotations.
I am not sure if you can get arrested for a nazi salute in the UK, mostly because in reality, those arrested for 'hate crimes' have actually done a few other things. Harassment and violence, usually. Right wing supremacy and violence towards non-whites are often synonymous. People arrested in the recent riots weren't arrested because of a peaceful demonstration of their views, they were arrested because they set fire to cars, etc.
I'm interested to know how far Lance thinks freedom of speech should go, given America's anti-terrorism laws which I am fairly sure include the power to arrest someone whose neighbours notice they happen to be buying a lot of fertilizer. Wasn't there a big thing under the Bush administration encouraging people to report 'suspicious' behaviour? I wonder how many innocent brown people got hauled in where white people doing the same wouldn't have been reported?
RE: Australia News
Message edited:
No, that's not how anti-terrorism laws work here. And no, you can't get arrested (rather you may be falsely arrested, but not convicted and then you will win a huge lawsuit) for buying a lot of fertilizer.
Here our Freedom of Speech rights basically have three carve outs. One criminal, One civil and private property/entities. 1. Criminal: Direct threats of violence/assault, or a call to violence against an individual (IE a threat) 2. Civil: Slander and Defamation. 3. Pubic (almost anything goes) Private (anything goes that the owner wants). And my question wasn't answered, it was sidestepped.
SimianSavant
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RE: Australia News
Actually Lance, habeas corpus
has been suspended in a couple instances which you might be aware of: under Lincoln and under Bush 2. However, in the latter instance, I'm not aware of any instances in which it was used against US citizens on US soil. And if Trump issues mass deportations of illegally residing foreign nationals, it would not be relevant either, since those folks do not have any constitutional rights in the first place.
CD Richards
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RE: Australia News
Exactly WHICH question was sidestepped, Lancellot?
RE: Australia News
Does that law apply to everyone equally? I mean if a black man or an Aboriginal woman had said, "I'm a black supremist and I hate white people. They ruined our land." Then given whatever the black supremist version of a salute or raised their arm in air like a Nazi, would she be sent to jail for a month too?
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